DIESES INTERVIEW WURDE AUF ENGLISCH GEFÜHRT
Barbara Wurm: Thank you for joining this conversation, Sho and Carlo! Congratulations on yet another great film, Sho, we are proud to have YOAKE NO SUBETE in the Forum, which, just like your previous film, is based on a book. The Japanese title translates to “All of the Dawn”, if I am correct, and the author is Maiko Seo. How did you come across this book? Or rather, did the book find you?
Sho Miyake: My producer actually introduced the book to me. I started reading it and was immediately grabbed by the two protagonists. I actually started reading it while I was working on my last film KEIKO, ME WO SUMASETE [2022]. It's a story about two young people who are not really able to work the way they wish they could, and I felt I knew it already, as if by instinct. it would be my next project. My last film depicted a boxer, and though the two films have some things in common, I knew at the same time it was going to be a whole new challenge for me.
Carlo Chatrian: May I ask something about this challenge. In Sho Miyake films, women characters are on the surface fragile, but then they are very strong inside. On the other hand, the world around them seems to be very harsh, but they manage to find their own way. This is more of a general question about your vision of the world, which I connect with this challenge, because it's something not so common in cinema, and maybe also in…Well, Japanese cinema shows a lot of strong women! But the way you show it is quite unique to me.
SM: I am a middle-aged man. So I began by admitting that I either know nothing about the opposite sex, or I probably have prejudices that I am unaware of. This was my starting point. Then I proceeded to make the film with as few preconceptions as possible. It is a series of new discoveries. In other words, to be free from prejudice. For example, this film deals with PMS [premenstrual dysphoric syndrome]. I quickly realized that I had never really known anything about the female body. So the film was full of surprises as I discovered more in terms of the topic. I learned a lot about the main female character and yes, she is strong. In the process of making the film, I also met other strong women who were not on the screen, such as the producer and other women crew members. I was greatly inspired and learned a lot from them.
I believe we all have a desire to be unbound from stereotypes and rules. I like the energy of these people who want to be free from the conventions of society.
BW: I was struck by the protagonists, but maybe even more by the kind of relationship that they establish. It's very special. It's close to a love story, but it is maybe not. It may be just a step before it. Perhaps it is this kind of atmosphere that you create, the way you depict this relationship, that reminds many who have seen the film of the cinema of Ozu. These shadings of a relationship.
SM: Thanks for the comment. I think that we tend to foresee a love story when we see a man and a woman in a film. But this is just a habit in the world of films. In our daily lives, we often see two people of different genders work respectfully alongside each other without any romantic or sexual relationship. Usually, this kind of relationship is not depicted in films. Maybe it's because it's so difficult to script, but we tried. I like romantic movies, but behind this film is a scepticism toward clichéd love stories and a rejection of stereotypes. Similarly, what Ozu portrays in his films is doubt and scepticism about the family. It is not an affirmation of the family. The people in Ozu's films, especially the women, are sometimes doubtful, sometimes frustrated, and sometimes angry at the Japanese family system. These angry women are the charm of Ozu's films. I believe we all have a desire to be unbound from stereotypes and rules. I like the energy of these people who want to be free from the conventions of society.
CC: Maybe speaking about Ozu in relation to this film in particular, the two main characters are alone, are lonely, either because of their personal history or because of their problems. And individualism is something that defines modern cinema. As Miyake-san said, the cinema of Ozu was more a cinema of the collective, of families. Here there is no family, but in a way, and this is the question – the place of work instead becomes a sort of alternative family. I would like to ask how you shaped that – was that already something central to the book or something you brought in? Because the strength of this film in particular is the way the peripheral characters are depicted.
SM: Thank you for your comment. What I was really attracted to from the original novel is not only these two protagonists, but also the other characters. They have their pasts, they have their stories, and they are still suffering from them, they are not able to openly discuss them. Therefore, they can be very gentle and caring to others. The film has such a gentle feel overall because the people here are all wounded in ways. That’s why they are able to retain this sort of community, this workplace. I detected it in the novel, and it comes across thanks to the stellar acting, especially of the actor who played the company president, Ken Mitsuishi.
One thing I would like to add: have you ever heard of the word "karoshi"? This Japanese word means working long, excessive hours and ultimately dying because of it. In the late 1980s "Can you work 24 hours a day?" became a popular advertising catchphrase in Japan. It sounds ridiculous, but the inhumane working conditions have yet to improve today. In the novel, the president's younger brother dies suddenly from overwork, but in the film, he commits suicide because of a mental illness caused by overwork. This is one of the serious problems facing Japanese society today. Many of us have lost colleagues, friends, and family.
They loosely break down stereotypes. Like a skateboarder turning a city obstacle into a playground.
BW: What I like about the film are the many levels of care and caretaking. The woman is all about it, and then let’s lose, the guy on the other hand finally notices that there are also other people around him. The film is about how people help each other to live. This society needs a lot of care, people have stress and work issues, leading to suicide, they do therapy, join self-aid-groups. The funny thing is you seem to parody this by having your two protagonists do overtime on Sunday, where they don’t work in the traditional sense but instead help each other, by cleaning the car together and relaxing. So they do everything this capitalist system asks for, but they do it for themselves. And they don't produce or reproduce anything, they just care for each other. Was this part of the book, or your specific dramaturgical idea?
SM: Yes, these scenes were in the original story. I found it humorous and also felt it was an important scene to deepen the theme. They are at work, so from the outside it looks like they are working, but in fact they are sort of chatting and playing together. They use their workplace as another place. The same goes for the president's office, which is like a park where they gather for lunch. In other words, they loosely break down stereotypes. Like a skateboarder turning a city obstacle into a playground.
CC: One of the elements that defines this film is the planetarium. It’s a real place, but at the same time it's a place where the outside reality in a way fades away. How did you include this element in your storytelling? It brings in something that takes us far away from reality and also the sociological aspect. At this point you bring in not only the scientific language of astronomy, but poetry.
SM: The planetarium does not appear in the original novel. At one point I came across a small old planetarium in a trip. And I was very impressed. I listened to the commentary in the dark for only 20 minutes, but somehow I felt my troubles lifted, I felt liberated, and I remembered when I first started going to the cinema. What is important for this film is to capture the moments when the suffering of panic attacks, PMS, etc. becomes a little lighter. For some people, it will be a relief to realize the scientific truth that there is an unknown universe inside and outside our bodies. For others, it will be important to feel it poetically and intuitively. The planetarium, a space much like a movie theatre, is the best place to depict this.
BW: The planetarium is a great metaphor combining the poetic and universal with their reality – producing these astronomical kits – and the world of stars in skies and dreams. I started to think about all those long nights in real life which I am neglecting…But I have another question. The two main actors in this film, Hokuto Matsumura and Mone Kamishiraishi, they are both very young, and they're both known more from other fields – entertainment, singing, anime. How was it to work with them, and was it hard for them to adapt to this more mature portrayal of their characters and relationships, which strike me as rather atypical for this generation.
SM: Mone is not only an actor, but also a singer, a musical performer, has published short stories, and is trying her hand at translating "Anne of Green Gables". She is an artist I admire. Hokuto is also a very sincere actor, who had done a lot of research and preparation for his role. They both understood their roles very well. They even understood well that they did not represent all people suffering from these conditions. And they were careful not to overemphasize how hard it was and how much they were suffering. Trying to hide the suffering is what makes it real. They actually achieved this humility and understanding of their symptoms in their performances. I would also like to mention their wonderful voices. I hope their voices touch the hearts of those who do not understand the meaning of the Japanese language and convey a certain vibration.
BW: As you mentioned their voices, I wanted to focus on the sound for a minute. The excellent score is central to the film. It seems to be a short and simple tune, but it's used in such a delicate way. I want to ask you how you work with this music and the composer.
SM: The musician's name is Hi'Spec. This is the fourth time I've worked with him on film music. I know his great talent, so I didn't need many words, I trusted him fully. One of the keywords was wave. Music that seems to repeat the same phrase, but in fact something different is happening each time. And ghosts are another keyword. Sounds that we don't usually hear, but that seem to be there all the time.
CC: I want to thank Miyake-san for his beautiful and touching and moving film. And I guess I speak also on behalf of Barbara – we are looking forward to welcoming you and your film in Berlin.
BW: It is a nice journey, I think, which started in 2018 in Forum with KIMI NO TORI WA UTAERU and continued in Encounters with KEIKO, ME WO SUMASETE in 2022 and now onwards and back to Forum with YOAKE NO SUBETE. We'll all be in one tune together soon, listening to these two people’s wonderful voices, the gentle score and sharing our dreams about stars and nights. Thank you so much.
SM: Arigato!
